One interest in shooting since i was a youth has always been long range shooting. The challenge of hitting things far out intrigues me. Since i shoot high powered rifles, I've made a lot of nice 500 and 600 yard shots on various targets. Three big differences today between powder burners and airguns is BC of projectiles, power, and accuracy at distance. There are others for sure such as projectile propellant (gunpowder vs compressed air) but i want to discuss the 1st three. While an airgun will always be down on power compared to a powder burner, airguns can be made to be accurate and they can shoot projectiles made of lead that closely resemble a sleek high BC powder burner bullet. And the High BC combined with the correct twist rate can help airguns to shoot far and still be accurate.
Lets take a look at some of the bullets I cast that I have used and some that i currently use:
These .308's have a BC of .199
These .257's have a BC of .129
Various .457 bullets that are shot out of airguns I have owned
A couple of cast .308 airgun bullet
This 100 gr Spitzer has a BC of .221
By using cast bullets in airguns, we extend the range of the gun vs using the same airgun that shoots Diablo pellets. But let it be known, Diablo pellets in the right gun can be deadly accurate out just past 100 yards and in the right conditions. We also, by casting our own bullets, save money vs what it cost to shoot powder burners in today's economy.
M.O.A.:
Lets talk MOA for just a moment before we get to the video. MOA is MOA no matter the gun or projectile used. MOA is general terms is simply 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 yards, and 3" at 300 yards and so on. For anyone who doesn't understand MOA, i would suggest over all that you google the term and get to understand it fully. But, for my particular shoot at 446 yards, using G7 ballistics program, with a 75 yard zero the 100 gr Spitzer would drop 452" from the 75 yard mark all the way out to 450 yards! My scope would need 110 MOA to compensate for the 452" of drop over that distance. I explain in the video how I compensated for it but, the brief explanation above simply shows a person what kind of knowledge it takes to accurately place bullets on target at extreme distances.
TD257:
This is one of my long range airguns called the TD257. Many might ask, what is TD257? Well, its simple. The T stands for Talon. The D is half a word from ConDor and the 257 designates the caliber of the gun. So what is Talon and what is Condor? Again, easy! There is a airgun manufacturer in Texas called Airforce. In their line of guns they have 1 model called the Airforce Talon and another model called the Airforce Condor. To make this story shorter, my gun is a Talon frame with a Condor valve (much more powerful valve than the Talon line of guns) and is in .257 caliber hence the name, TD257. The gun was custom built by Doug Noble (his contact info is in the video credits) and he is a machinist. Its currently set up to shoot the Lyman 257420 74 gr bullets at 1000+ fps and 100+ gr bullets at about 890 FPS for roughly 166 and 180 FPE! The barrel is from TJ Enterprises and its a barrel liner with a 250 bore and 257 groove and is 26-5/8" long. The twist rate is 1-14", and has a O.D. of about .562"
Being a DIY'er and a general handyman type guy, one aspect of "CUSTOM" made parts has always escaped me. And that's the "MACHINING" side of custom parts. Sure, like most of you, I've seen videos of CNC and Lathe/Mill machining but I've never had the opportunity to see it for myself nor did i really know how long the process took. Since meeting Doug Noble or DYOTAT100 over on the TAG Forum, that's all changed.
Doug's been into airgunning for some years and machining parts even longer. But he recently joined the TAG Forum and started showing many of us some of his ideas on increasing the performance of the AirForce line of guns. Especially when it came to making all out power and even improving on some of the other various basic parts of the gun. But what stood out was his valve work and machining skills. He had some really great ideas and also the tools to make those ideas happen. I then got the idea from another source to turn my half Talon, half Condor into a super small bore. When i saw the Jack Haley 257 and it's performance numbers, I knew I had to have a 257 cal gun and what better than the Air Force gun that I had right downstairs in my garage. After contacting Doug via PM's, we decided to meet up and discuss my idea's for what I wanted as well as other "GUY TALK".
After our initial meeting and me dropping my gun off to Doug, I asked him if I could video the progress of my guns transformation and he gladly agreed and said, "ANYTIME" I was welcomed to come over and film whatever I wanted. I was very extactic that he so graciously agreed. And I've been filming every since.
Here are some pics along with a brief description of all the NEW parts fresh off the lathe:
Valve Body with Valve Stem
Return Spring Retainer
3 Port Valve Stem
Assorted Parts
Valve Body and Valve Stem
Valve Stem Retainer/Guide
Hatsan Air Stripper
Long story short, here is a video that i put together that's roughly 10 minutes long. And that's as quick as i could make it before it literally "BORED" you all to death. Its Doug making his full custom 257 cal Valve Body and Valve assembly for my 257 TalonDor.
The Finished Assembly with Bottle:
53 Ci bottle with completed valve assembly, pressure gauge, fill nipple and WokGuard15
This gun to date has been such a blast to shoot. My TalonDor .257 is one of the absolute best airguns in my "AIRSENAL"...lol!
Also, casting bullets for it has also been very rewarding. Since i got my Lyman 257420 mold HP'd, i've run a few test to check on their performance. But as most know, shooting reactive targets is a bit different than shooting flesh and bone. So only with a couple of game animals taken with the Lyman 257420 FN bullets, i've been very curious to see how the HP offspring would fare on the same animals.
With the addition of a Limbsaver Barrel De-Resonator, accuracy and consistency were improved and the gun has become extremely accurate and potent at range. With my gun having such a short frame and such a long barrel (26-5/8" long), the Limbsaver was just the ticket to stop whipping or vibration. On this outing, once i set the Limbsaver De-Resonator to the perfect location, it was time to hunt.
During the hunt, I managed to bag a few ground squirrels at various ranges ranging from 52 yards out to 78 yards. With the Jack Rabbits, I managed to take them from 40 yards, out to 186 yards! With the 186 yard kill, I hit the record button but I failed to push it hard enough to start recording. I got extremely excited when I saw the rabbit run from about 90 yards away all the way up to 186 yards and just stop and relax and watch me. Some people get Deer Fever, I get "small game" fever....lol! Back to the story, i keep my scope set on 12x as to be able to effectively use my Mil Dots and when i viewed the rabbit, he looked really small. I then set the objective adjustment to roughly 150 yards and i could see the rabbit as clear as day. BUT HE WAS SMAAAAAALL in my scope. I looked at the rabbit with my naked eye as i did not have time to use a range finder and i guess about 170+ yards. I then quickly held the lower and thicker DUPLEX post just above the rabbits head. I knew with this much holdover, i had the head and the shoulder covered for impact. Both being a kill shot with this caliber. To my surprise, and about 3/4 of a second later, i saw through the scope the rabbit crumble to the ground then the impact report made it back to my ears shortly after. Both, verifying that I made a solid hit. I think loaded another bullet and then rechecked through my scope that the rabbit was indeed down! After confirming that, that's when I glanced up at my video camera monitor and saw that the record light was NOT red which meant it was not recording the shot. Now, I won't give too much more away. I will let you watch the video and take a journey with me as i hunt with this fine airgun.
THE VIDEO:
All in all, I am very pleased with the performance of this airgun. It is one of the most lethal airguns in my collection. The gun is currently undertaking some new performance mods. So needless to say..............STAY TUNED!
Some years back, a guy south of me and myself started making x's in the HP mouth and cavity of the 25 cal Crow Magnums and we started calling them MCM's (Modified Crow Magnums). We would then go out for Jack Rabbit hunts in San Diego and would have a blast testing these pellets. The MCM's were pretty devastating on the HUGE Diego Jacks. And we would always post about the MCM's and the results we were getting.
Today, I don't even shoot the CM's as I've found better HP's in the Predators and HP's that i cast myself for my mid and big bore airguns. For my 308 and 45 HP's, i had not really experimented with a Modified version of one of my cast HP's simply cause the mouths on the bullets are so big that it's really not needed. WELL, I should have experimented with the anyways as airguns cause of their lower FPS, usually need all the help they can get. And if you shoot HP's, why not help the bullet start to expand.
Well, now that I've converted my Talond/Condor over to 257 caliber, I've found a jewel of a bullet in the LYMAN 257420 mold. I recently had one side of it converted to HP and the other side was left as an original Flat Point.
After casting and sizing up a bunch of bullets with the newly modified mold, i decided to try and make a batch of the HP's into MHP's by using the old Razor Blade technique of cutting a x or + into the nose of the HP and then test its effectiveness against a regular HP and the FN bullets. So now it would be 3 versions of only 1 bullet.
In this video clip, I'm testing the 3 bullets versions into various mediums. In the video, you will also note the vapor coming from the muzzle blast as it was cold and just about raining out. The vapor is pretty cool to see on video and shows just HOW MUCH AIR WE ARE PUSHING in airguns. I call the video "UNSCIENTIFIC" simply cause i used and ancient technique to judge how effective the bullet versions are on target. I simply use the old, EYES, BRAIN, EARS and video technique to judge effectiveness of the bullets.......lol! Nothing scientific about it....lol!
Was at work and the boss asked me to trash some left over stuff from our equipment. He said that whatever i wanted from the pile, i could take. Well, 1 gallon of cutting oil was first on the list (especially for free). The other thing i quickly spotted was a brand new 12x12x6" junction box (electricians). I quickly though, "hmmmmm, bullet trap using rubber mulch that i've been hearing so much about as of lately"...lol! So HOME the junction box came.
Well, today i had time to get over to Home Depot and i quickly found the mulch of course in the garden section. I had my choice of Red or Brown mulch. Oh My, that 1 too many choices more than what i was expecting. I was expecting only BLACK since i know its made from shredded tires. Too my surprise, there was no black but only red or brown. No probs either way. Brown it was. I also picked up some Jig Saw blades to cut a section out of the junction box.
Needless to say, there really isn't more to really talk about when it comes to the actual project itself. The idea is pretty straight forward. So here it is in a nutshell.
The pics are self narrated:
The nice thing that i noticed right off the bat is that its much cleaner than using wood backers or plumbers putty. Wood splinters quickly and gets messy pretty quick when using it in your home. You also blow through it pretty quickly and it gives feedback when hit. So wood is not quite when shot. Plumbers putty is awesome but you can soon blow right through it after shooting in the same area. Plus you get a lot of it laying around the garage after you've shot a few hundred rounds through it. Its pretty hard to also clean out plumbers putty and reuse it. Plumbers putty is quiet though when shot.
I know.....the title is all dramatic huh? LOL! As the title states, I have brought my old talon/condor back to life and even gave it a well deserved caliber swap.
Back Story (short version): I purchased a Air Force Talon in 22 back in 2005. As most Talons go, it came with a 18" .22 cal LW barrel. While being a fun gun, I found it difficult to reach "WAY OUT THERE". Because I hunt in the desert, I needed a gun with more oomph! So I bought a 24" LW 22 cal barrel along with a Condor tank. Along with the longer barrel and Condor tank, I performed some tuning that I learned over on the TAG. The gun was pushing 22 cal Eun Jins at over 1075 FPS in 22. To make a long story even shorter, I then purchased a 25 cal barrel and breech and top hat combo for even more power. The gun was a thumper to say the least. But after all these mods and a LOT of hunting, I was never truly satisfied with the all out accuracy of the gun. Even after the gun was de-tuned. After some years of ownership of the TalonDor 25 and the introduction of the Rapid25, I retired the TalonDor in about 2008 or so. Here is a old pic of the TalonDor in one of its many earlier guises:
Present day: After much pondering and taking a look at "WHATS" out there, my taste have turned to long range shooting with airguns. I mean, I've always done long range shooting with airguns since i started in them but, I've always wanted something that was not only powerful but, something that was accurate and had looks. I also wanted something that shoots BULLETS and not pellets. I mean, if your gonna go long range, why not use the right tools. And while pellets can travel far, they simply do NOT outperform bullets. The Daystate Wolverine had come to mind but, it's a odd caliber with odd weighted bullets for the power plant. So i got to seriously thinking about what caliber I would want. I already had a 454 and a 457 and a 308. It wasn't until RJ Porter post that it hit me.........hmmmmmmm..........257! Why not? I had already done the big and medium calibers so why not a small caliber. And the idea was born. But what gun could i do this in. My Dragon Slayer was already in 454 and it's very successful in that caliber. The Corsair can't be taken apart (yet) so it was out. Both of these guns though make 250 FPE and are perfect candidates as a base. But I did not want to change or mess with those platforms as they both perform. And it wasn't until one day, i was in the garage cleaning up that the idea hit me.............THE TALONDOR! WHY NOT!?
DYOTAT100: In comes Doug Noble or DYOTAT100 as he is known on the TAG forum. I had been following his work and post and had found out he lives right down the freeway from me. I PM'd him about being interested in performing my "ideas" on my TalonDor. He was more than game and more than up to the task. GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!!
My Ideas: The concept for this gun was simple. I wanted a long range rig. Something that could shoot accurately to OVER 75 yards! The same gun could easily reach out to 200 yards also. And do it accurately. And using the Air Force platform would be a stretch (no pun intended). The caliber would be 257 with a barrel that had a fast twist to keep the bullet stabilized while reaching out. I also wanted a 1 piece bushing for rigidity while in the frame. Doug also came up with the idea of a custom "tight" fitting frame end cap. For even more rigidity, I contacted Adam Vigil here on the TAG about his WOKGUARD15. I also ordered a DPMS AR15 pistol grip with beaver tail tang that I had to trim down to help support the bottle of the TalonDor. I got rid of the old custom pistol grip. I also decided to relocate the forearm closer to the Wokguard15 so everything in the vicinity would be fully supported and create LESS frame flex. I also had Doug install a second bolt into the forearm for more rigidity. The gun also already has a Tri-Rail. A new hammer weight, hammer spring would also be added to the gun. The hammer weight is of the Bore Riding design and made of brass.
Here are some pics of all the custom parts and the gun completely assembled: OEM TRIGGER GUARD
WOKGUARD15
OLD PISTOL GRIP and TRIGGER GUARD
DPMS ADJUSTABLE PISTOL GRIP
CUSTOM KNURLED ALUMINUM/DELRIN COCKING KNOB
AIRFORCE BIPOD PAINTED WITH TRUCK BED LINER
OLD FOREARM PAINTED WITH TRUCK BED LINER
CUSTOM 95 GRAM BRASS HAMMER WEIGHT
CUSTOM PARTS ASSEMBLED ON 257 BARREL
RELOCATED BUSHING SET SCREWS-6 TOTAL-3 ON TOP/BOTTOM RIB
GUN ASSEMBLED WITHOUT SCOPE AND BIPOD
BULLETS OF CHOICE: LYMAN 65 GR FLAT POINT BULLET MOLD IN 257
OVERVIEW AND PERFORMANCE OF GUN ON ITS MAIDEN OUTING: Needless to say, I am extremely happy with Doug's work. His work is as nice in person as it is on the forums. I learned a lot about the Air Force line of products through Doug. Having a machinist or gunsmith run through these guns is pretty much NECESSARY. But on to the positives. I made a video of the gun while out on its maiden shooting session so I won't go into too much verbal detail. But I will say that the gun is a performer and it lives up to my expectations. My initial groups printed in the 5/8" CTC range at 60 yards. I was also able to print a 1.050" CTC group at 110 lasered yards while shooting a small resettable popper target which is in the video. The gun also performs best at power setting 5-8 and 3100 psi and makes 132 FPE at that setting. The gun also has a bit of a kick and is pretty loud. But that's ok, I don't mind loud especially when the gun performs.
HOLD SENSITIVE: Yes, the gun is very hold sensitive. Like most Air Force guns, she required a light hold. A snug hold makes the gun groups horribly. The gun also prefers PURE LEAD bullets over hard cast or bullets that are cast just a lil bit harder than pure lead (???????)
THE GUN FULLY ASSEMBLED
FUTURE MODS All silver will become black (lol). The Morgan Adjustable butt pad will soon be replaced with a WOKBUTT
.jpg)
.JPG)
.JPG)
.JPG)
